| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
111
   |
Posted - 2016.10.10 21:36:09 -
[1] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Justine Musk wrote:
How can a new players enter the industry gameplay when the basic structure with rigs and modules is going to be well over the 1bil cost, onlining the 3 basic module is going to cost probably 5k blocks (around 100+ mils)
For what has to be the umpteenth time, now: By using OTHER PEOPLE'S STRUCTURES. Please stop with the insipid implication that you can't even enter industrial play without owning your very own EC. It's ignorant at best, and an unabashed lie, at worst. Using someone else's POS was generally infeasible because of the lack of personal storage and sufficiently granular permissions. There's no such concern under the new structure model.
As a solo industrialist (with 2 account) in a C3 with 2 towers, Rorqual and Chimera.
I am looking forward to you setting up a Fortizar & Large Indy in the wormhole so that I may continue with my existing gameplay by using OTHER PEOPLE'S STRUCTURES |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
112
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 18:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Rowells wrote:If you haven't already figured out a way to allow ships to access hangars from outside the structures, please allow an exception for the rorqual on the Large EC until that comes into place.
It would be very odd for the rorqual to have a position of ore transport that can't even use the Large. Otherwise you'll end up with a scenario where people have to keep a freighter and a fort nearby to utilize them both together. Sit the rorq on the undock, with a DST/freighter/hauler. One drops a can, rorq dumps compressed ore in can, hauler scoops, docks up. problem solved. Mild hassle, but nothing really problematic.
So for the small WH corp or solo player the process would be:
1) Sit in the Rorq on the undock , jet a can - Eject from the Rorq
2) Dock your pod hoping that no-one is watching and steals you Rorq
3) Get into the hauler scoop the can - Dock - Undock in pod
4) Jump in the Roroq - Jet another can - Eject in Pod
Rinse and Repeat
Ok CCP we get: --
Despite the fact I can safely leave my Rorq at a 150mil small POS to swap out pilots -- You want me to buy a freaking huge, expensive, undefendable, garage to park my ships.
So now that I have my space coffin to live in.....
FFS AT LEAST LET US ACCESS THE FLEET HANGER from the CITADEL ... or have a citadel hanger we can use from space
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
113
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 18:32:20 -
[3] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:So now that I have my space coffin to live in.....
FFS AT LEAST LET US ACCESS THE FLEET HANGER from the CITADEL ... or have a citadel CORP OFFICE hanger we can use from space They're working on it :) CCP Fozzie wrote:One change we are working towards is the ability to place items into your personal hangar in an Upwell structure from outside of that structure (within docking range). I'm not going to lie and tell you that we know exactly when that feature will be done, but it is on our roadmap.
Hhahahah
and I'm walking around a station showing off my outfits and chatting with other players about the best way to deploy the entosis link |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
113
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 18:48:58 -
[4] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Obil Que wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:@CCP Fozzie
Also, when are you planning to iterate on Citadel/EC [in]vulnerability mechanics? I've heard a lot of discontent about it from many sources. For example, people outside of major time zones (AUTZ and RUTZ specifically) feel like they're going to lose a lot of content after POS warfare is gone. People are discontent that they can't attack something 24x7 when there are no defenders to defend it I wouldn't expect a lot of potential iteration on that. A major design goal of the structures were that the choice of when a structure gets attacked goes to the defender as there is no gameplay for the defender relative to the attacker having it shot in an off timezone scenario. While there is an aspect of "reduced gameplay" for the attacker, it is also gameplay where there is no defender in many, if not most cases. CCP stated they wanted increased interaction at the expense of this "gameplay" and made it so that the attacker has to be inconvenienced ( potentially) in order to engage a defender when they likely will be present. The extended vulnerable hours on the EC and other potential future structures makes interaction with them more likely compared to a citadel which is designed to be the home base of a defender. ~Potentially~ that might all be nice and cool. But the reality is cruel. As long as anyone see a russian-speaking alliance at their doorsteps, they set timers for late EUTZ at best or for early USTZ at worst. Which is midnight to morning for RUTZ. With POSes they can a) kite timers and b) reinforce on Thursday/Friday to have timers on the weekend. Sov warfare is a bit harder, as the former is not possible and the later works only for low ADM systems - but it works. It is a known fact that everyone "love" Fozziesov. It is also a fact that POS warfare was fine since Dominion. Yet, the new structures copy-paste all timezone issues from Fozziesov, without even offering a workarounds like ADMs. It bogs my mind. Furthermore, those issues are multiplied, as there is no more weekend timers - vulnerability schedule spans a week, not a day. Believe me, it will be mirrored. Russians will set their timers for early day hours. And all those ~potential~ interactions will only be relayed to ****posts on reddit and eve-ru.com
I don't think there are Russians at the entrance to his wormhole - which sums up the division in these posts. CCP thining Alliances and a large portion of the player base thinking small corp & individual.
This update along with other this year are great for big entities but crap on solo and small corp play. |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
113
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 19:04:56 -
[5] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:
Your own mental hurdle seems to be that for some people, owning a fancy space factory is the entire point.
These are the same folks who go to the hardware store and buy power tools that collect dust in their garage because, even though they haven't actually used a tool since high school shop class, they just really want a table saw, right?
There are some people who want to buy a table saw and put it in the garden shed.
This is not being able to buy the table saw unless you also have a workshop, warehouse and administration building even tho the one in the garden shed still works
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
115
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 19:10:34 -
[6] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:
On the break-even point for fuel costs, you are exactly right! It's just until now, the ceiling for fuel costs was a moderate 10 blocks per hour for a small POS-tower. With the same functionality, it's now 45 per hour! Quite the difference. Together with higher base costs to get at least a medium EC and modules and rigs in the first place, a lot of players are now basically priced out of their playstyle.
My point was, forcing players to stop playing is a bad thing for a MMO. So having those higher costs for starting up is a bad thing. Sure, you can stay in stations or use other people's ECs, but for many, that's not the same thing as having your own center of operations.
Something to consider. It's really only 15. You don't *need* to do invention and research at your manufacturing EC. In fact, you could argue it is wildly cost-prohibitive to think you need to pay 15 block/mo to invent when you can do it far far cheaper at an NPC station with total safety. Same for research. Yes, you lose a significant time bonus but it would seem that in your example of the small/solo producer, that can mostly be absorbed/managed in exchange for far less cost to run the EC making it very comparable to a small POS.
Do you think if I asked them really nicely the sleepers in the C3 would put up a NPC station for me to research my blueprints |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
115
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 19:52:17 -
[7] - Quote
Needs & Wants
In a C3 WH I have a POS with LSAA. SMA, Component, Equipment , Drone & ammo arrays. research labs, gas, ore refining & compression Array. (there was a cap ship array but I moved that out after using it).
I anchor, un-anchor, online & offline them as they are needed for market conditions. I have built Rorquals, Carriers, Orcas and a myriad of ships, modules, ammo & rigs.
I want something to replace this 2-1/2 billion ISK investment and I could stretch to about 5 billion to cover my needs
1) - What do I need?
2) - How much will it cost?
After i Find this out will I feel like I've been shafted by CCP ?
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
122
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 19:56:15 -
[8] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:HaubPlan1 Wads wrote:HI all
Our corp has a small Faction POS that runs on 8 Fuels blocks/hour.
It does invention, ME, TE, and manufacturing of Teck II modules.
With this new system, 60 blocks/hr will be needed to do the same thing. Is that right?
If so.. it's not helping the small corps with reducing costs.
I would sure like to see an example of a small setup and what it would cost to run per hour.
Thanks With the new system you can lease your labs out to other capsuleers with no risk to your own jobs or materials. The EC will pay for itself if you can attract enough third party users to your facility. You should be able to reduce the capsuleer fees to zero for yourself and your friends, while still running the EC profitably. The only way small corps will be punished is if they can not find enough allies to defend the EC during a wardec.
I do this an more in my WH tower ..... there are not many capsuleers around to attract |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
122
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:24:03 -
[9] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:
EC's are not the solution you are looking for. They are for people coprorations who turn over billions on a daily basis.
I can just see Obi Wan Kanobi waving his hand at the solo and small group industrialists going "These are not the space structures you are looking for. Move along." Well... There is lots of things in EVE you cannot do solo or in 'small group'. For many things you MUST BE part of bigger and stronger group. Looks at Keepstars. Do you think you could have it with your 'small group of players'?  But for industry it is somehow should be different? Why? I think that is ok have reasons for people to group. Be it more complex stuff of higher profits.
With the exception of building an actual SuperCapital (parts) :
I can do any and all of the industry types provided by all sizes of the these Engineering Complexes at a single large faction tower. The cost of the fuel is covered by a single research lab anything else I online to make what I want or need does not have an upfront fuel cost.
Now it seems that I cannot be a solo or small corp player I have to be part of a group to do what I can ALREADY DO at a tower.
What you are saying about groups has some merit but forcing a tribal group mentality on a player though costs or forcing asset defense towards high player numbers..... Well that's like telling a stealth bomber pilot he can't fly through sov space unless he's in a fleet ... after all to be in sov space you really need to be in a group. |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
123
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 17:57:26 -
[10] - Quote
Kinizsi wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:With the huge expansion EVE: Ascension arriving on Nov 8, we will see the introduction of the eagerly awaited new Engineering Complexes. We will get a new set of service modules that will expand research and manufacturing support to the entire line of Upwell structures. These service modules will be fully compatible with existing Citadel structures. Simultaneously, Upwell will be releasing a new set of Engineering Complex structures which are bonused for optimal performance with these service modules. All details are now available in the new blog Building Dreams: Introducing Engineering Complexes One BIG QUESTION, what affects all: DOES THE INDUSTRY JOBS PAUSE WHEN THE EC GET REINFORCED? IF the answer is NO, there will be no reason to attack any M-L Engineering Complex, cause all industry jobs would finish way before the enemy can reinforce again, and finally kill the EC. So there will be no industry job loot, no real motivation, and all stuff would be secured by asset safety mechanism. = NO CONTENT, no reason to kill those EC's. Only XL EC can drop loot that way, from the super constructions, pretty much nothing else. This wouldn't be Good at all, so please CCP like it's with POS's PAUSE ALL manufacturing jobs, when the EC is reinforced.
It takes less time to kill an EC in a wormhole so WH dwellers get shafted yet again
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
123
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 18:17:30 -
[11] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Chani El'zrya wrote:As already said many times on this thread, there are two options for entry level industrialist:
1) NPC station
2) Public ECs/Citadels
Both comes with serious disadvantages compared to current POS system in terms of profitability when operating in high sec space + the risk of wardec. Those are facts nothing to be discussed anymore (break even point is too high for casual indy...). Let's put it another way. Right now, "casual indy" can use POS. What tools can use "hardcore indy", to have some advantage?
Lets put it yet another way .
When the POS or just its bonuses "go away" The casual/solo indy will in no way shape or form be able to compete. |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
125
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 21:43:33 -
[12] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:
It takes less time to kill an EC in a wormhole so WH dwellers get shafted yet again
I've covered some choices and options you have earlier in the thread. You need to get rid of this mentality of "I need to do it the most efficiently with minimal risk" in a wormhole. The benchmark for wormhole life is "I CAN do it". As in, it is possible. There are reasons why it is favorable to do it inefficiently. All part of SurrenderMonkey wrote:
You can't treat every individual concern as a deal breaker, when they're really just variables to be incorporated into your risk-benefit analysis.
I thank you for your opinions and I'm sure you have some expertise in the subject.
One thing I should point out is my benchmark for wormholes would be "I CAN do it NOW" , I do it now, to me this is fact - it is proven fact.
Regardless of it's profitability or efficiency the mantra will become "I CANNOT do it anymore" because this update is not an improvement for all EVE players for many it is a huge obstacle and in the case of solo/small corps it is an insurmountable obstacle given their chosen playing style.
It will not be popular for those affected because no one likes being forced into a different environment . |
| |
|